A19 ruled ‘not’ unlawfull…

A regulation allowing police forces to forcibly retire officers after 30 years’ service is not unlawful, the High Court has ruled.

The Police Superintendents’ Association for England and Wales (PSAEW) argued that the retiring of older officers would not result in major savings.

Hundreds of officers have been retired using regulation A19 after budgets were cut by 20% over five years.

The PSAEW said it was too early to say whether it would contest the decision.


Was there ever any doubt?

I mean… come on… imagine the lawsuits for loss of earnings?

As to the fed contesting… I wouldn’t trust them to sit the right way on a toilet…never mind win anything like this…

Roll on 2nd of Sept!!!


59 responses to “A19 ruled ‘not’ unlawfull…

  1. If you are at the sharp end, then after 30 years, you are truly stuffed if you have been doing the job right. Don’t know about the suits and the back office guys or our man management specialists. What the Fed must fight for is a decent pension after after 30. If you can go beyond thirty, you are lucky and that’s what this current govt. hopes for. Sure, some can do it but they are in a minority. The problem is that we have people deciding on police pensions and retirement ages who have not a clue as to what the job costs in physical and mental health.

  2. So where does this leave is with this new pension crap? If we can be retired after 30 years and I see no signs cheifs won’t use this to cut costs getting rid of the expensive officer dispite their experience on favour of a cheaper version. Does this mean we won’t ever qualify for a full pension as we won’t get to work to 60.

    As for the Fed they don’t even pretend to care anymore. They are having this being inner look rubbish but I know no one who has been asked for there opinion it seems yet again they are rigging the vote so they can have the result they want.

  3. Brief Encounter

    The Tories will get back in. What are the alternatives? Unless traditional labour supporters form a new party under pinning socialist values then nothing will change.

    • Who can disagree that Labour are doing the square root of f*ck all to capitalise on the omnishambles that is the current government, but some decent campaigning might well see Ukip take more of the disenchanted traditional tory votes as well as a few of the undecideds, to make a real difference in the 2015 outcome.

      I certainly hope so because if not, UK policing as well as the NHS, is finished.

      • XX Who can disagree that Labour are doing the square root of f*ck all to capitalise on the omnishambles that is the current government, XX

        No different to what the Conservatives did under the last labour regime.

        Britain has not had “an honourable opposition” since the late 70s.

        They are just happy to get a “go on the roundabout”. I.e, “you do not block our policy (which is the same as yours any way), and we will arrange for you to win the next election, so longs as you do the same for us at the end of your term.”

  4. Chatting to a group of teenagers in a youth club the other week, I said something I never ever thought I would say. Knowing my employment history (British Army and Police) I was asked if I would encourage anyone to apply to either of these professions. I said that, in my opinion, while there is no more honourable profession than being in the service of the Crown, this is now tainted by the actions of politicians who have no idea of what service means or what honour means. When people who have served their country honourably for a number of years and then being made ‘redundant’ only days before they are eligible for a full pension (in the case of the military) purely for financial reasons, or having their conditions of service altered without their consent (in the case of the Police) for the same reasons, only shows the level of contempt successive Governments have towards those who have chosen to serve. Under such circumstances, I would be reluctant to suggest anyone choose a career in the military or Police as those who view Service to the Crown as an honourable profession are far apart from those who have the ability to look upon this from a solely political viewpoint. My comments were made public and I was asked, by a number of local politicians, to expand on my comments. This I did, and no political party came out unscathed. I was told that ky comments would be passed further up the political food chain but have heard nothing more. Why would I? I am but a single vote with no real input into others views. However, there are several hundred service and ex Police and countless serving and retired military personnel where I live, so the current political incumbent may start to fret. What’s it like where you live?

    • Brief Encounter

      So the Army and Police are now ‘professions’?

      • How would you describe them?

        • Brief Encounter

          Public servants

          • Brief Encounter

            Look it up on Wikipedia neither are included. The key is specialist
            educational qualifications.

          • You would call an Army Warrant Officer Atificer, in technical charge of a REME Worksop, 47 personnel, with a degree in engineering and a member of a professional body, a public servant? Likewise a Police officer with an honours degree in computer science and also a full member of a professional body? They may be servants of the Crown but not servants of the public. I would accept ‘public official’ in the case of the Police, but neither I nor any of my colleagues (from both professions) would consider ourselves to be a public servant.

            • Brief Encounter

              Well I was a police officer with two directly applicable degrees but it didn’t mean that I was in a profession. I would say that I was a public servant and I was proud of that. You do not need specialist educational qualifications to be a Constable.

            • Brief Encounter

              You don’t need a degree.

            • Brief Encounter

              Look what is th matter with you lot, I can’t flounce out of here if you lot go on being nice to me.

            • Brief Encounter

              Certainly not civil Servants. Sorry just trying to keep,the posts cming by trying to light a few squibs, sadly they seem to have got a bit damp.

  5. If this means there is a realistic prospect that I may never actually see my full pension then that is all the more reason to bale out now.

  6. So this is where you’ve all gone!

    • Brief Encounter

      Yes we have suffered the Silence of The Lambs, fleeced of our voice but we are back thanks to Shepherd Shij.

    • Greetings, Jim. Nice to see you again.

    • scarletpimple

      Hey Jim, wondered where you were, thought you might have been organising another Jocobite Rebellion. Haven’t seen a youngster with maroon headgear have you? Or a mature lady doughnut maker.

      • Brief Encounter

        Very droll! A Jock-o-Bite Rebellion.

        Yeah I am missing biscuit tin lid as well. Can’t have a good flounce without his like.

        • scarletpimple

          It’s very pleasing when ones poor attempt at humour is appreciated,
          with the occasional Jockular comment.

      • Yes, good to see you to Guys. I’m in touch with ML and Buzz so will let them know ASAP about this. I’m active in the “Joc-o-bite” front and don’t need to tell you that the Cops north of the wall have the best deal. No Winsor and even post amalgamation no hint of PCSO’s and they’ve stopped paying specials.

  7. I could be wrong but I think the out at 30 only applies to anyone able to retire on a full pension at 30. A19 would apply at 35 years to anyone on the 35 yr scheme.

  8. A19 only applies to anyone who if required to retire would get a 2/3 pension.


  9. Brief Encounter

    Whilst the High Court has ruled on lawfulness of the rule that does not I suggest rule out challenges on reasonableness in terms of its application. I would be interested to know how many officers with 30 years in are planning to soldier on wih a response team.

  10. It is A19 of the Police Pension Regulations 1987. so only applies if you are in that scheme.
    Another theory of what constitutes a profession is; does the profession carry a code of conduct with a penalty for breach which can bar you from the profession.
    If that is accepted then the Police and the armed services are professions.
    Some jobs, which may require degrees to do, have no ethical standards at all and can not be considered professions.

  11. can we just agree the jobsf@cked and that Imelda ,her lapdog Winsor and the sTORY PR machine have ruined this vocation turning it into a cancer and makes what Acpoo, racist cops,1970’s cops and hillsborough/Lawrence/miners strike have done to police integrity& professionalism look like a mild case of eczema.

    last one out, turn out the lights, that’s if someone hasn’t nicked them as Public services and property will be way way down on G4s priority/profit response scale.

    completely Clocked off.

  12. Brief Encounter

    It is not a professin, you don’t have to train for years to become a Constable, end of.

    That said we need properly paid and motivated Constables. Call them what you will, they do a vital job, politicians do not.

    • Brief Encounter

      Or profession even!

    • Err you do…Two year probationary period… code of conduct…it’s a profession…

      • Brief Encounter

        Engineering Apprenticehip. 4 years, City & Guilds stillmnot a profession. Police not a Profession. Teaching is though so you are about to join the elite band of bothers

        • profession: /prəˈfɛʃ(ə)n/ noun
          A paid occupation, especially one that involves prolonged training and a formal qualification: his chosen profession of teaching, a barrister by profession.

          Note the Oxford English Dictionary’s use of ‘especially’ i.e. ‘to a great extent, very much’ as opposed to ‘exclusively, or strictly’, in relation to the involvement of a formal qualification.

          • Brief Encounter

            Nah, job for life for power hungry working class lads.

          • The Army, or any branch of the military, and Police are not ‘paid occupations’ as such, but are classed as vocations. There is more than the basic desire to accept monetary benefit for a period of employment but a desire to ‘serve’ – in this case, The Crown. Every soldier or Police officer, once they have completed basic training or probation, are qualified, albeit not one which is recognised in the non-military or Police families. But this still makes them professions rather than public servants. Many military or Police personnel obtain even more qualifications during their service, either complimentary to their role or acceptable in the wider field, which amplifies their ability to carry out the tasks of their profession. Even the Army advertisements ask people to ‘join the professionals’.

            • Brief Encounter

              I think there is a difference between the traditional meaning of a profession such as that of Lawyer and the ability to behave in a professional manner which could apply to anyone who is remunerated for work.

              You could be the most qualified police officer ever but that would not make policing a profession.

              That said the skills which police officers acquire during their service could if they were reduced into academic achievements render policing a profession.

            • So… I’m not a professional now…and won’t be up to the 1st of September…but when I am av teacher on the 2nd…I will? Lol

        • XX Engineering Apprenticehip. 4 years,XX

          Oh yippee.

          Police 30 years and STILL learning. And that is WITHOUT the Seargeant and Inspector exams.

    • XX It is not a professin, you don’t have to train for years to become a Constable, end of.XX

      (I think you meant to say “Proffession”(??))

      So, an 18 month rooky is just as “qualified” as a 30 year plod, is he?

      Depends what you mean by “train.”

      Agreed, there are no certificates. But then, we do a REAL job, and the training is “on-going.”

      • Brief Encounter

        Ah how are you Mr Double Crosser (note to self, that may be too subtle), I did correct myself which you would know had you read it properly.

        I doubt that with the exception of traffic division accident investigation officers there will be anything like the level of mathematical calculations that an engineer would have to make. But we should all recognise that we continue to experience new things from which we should learn.

        Anyway carry on plodding and don’t get too cross.

        • Double cross I doubt that with the exception of traffic division accident investigation officers there will be anything like the level of mathematical calculations that an engineer would have to make.Doublecross.

          So only mathematicians can be proffessionals then? Tell that to Christiaan Barnard.

  13. 10 miserable years to go

    Personally I’m out as soon as I can collect my pension immediately and i’ll go stack shelves in Tesco to make up the shortfall. As far as I’m concerned the job can go f¿ck themselves.

  14. Brief Encounter

    1066 incorporation of Brittany Ferries and birth of SP!

  15. Join the club. I gained my freedom 2nd Sept 2009. Enjoyed my 30 but saw the best of it. TJF.

    • 11th April 1978.
      Was the date that I joined the ranks of those entitled to a Met Police pension. That makes thirty five years or circa 420 monthly cheques.
      I of course feel extreme guilt about this and I have often thought about paying some back to HMG. Then again, these moments of madness soon pass as I remember for each one such as me, there are probably a score who never lasted the course long enough to receive their entitlement.

  16. Theresa May has type I diabetes.
    Knowing first hand the debilitating consequences of this condition , she has my sympathies and I’m sure with her vast wealth and access to the best private healthcare etc etc it will not interfere with her ability to continue to dismantle and mismanage..

    Though , I wasn’t aware that Sontarans were prone to this condition.

  17. Brief Encounter

    The Sontarans are true professionals.

  18. Brief Encounter

    Please Shij give us a new subject.

  19. Brief Encounter

    Thanks Shij.

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