STOPPA STOP’N SEARCH!


Alex- here on the ‘One Show’ we like to do cutting edge stuff…we have with us Janet Face-bucket, the leader of the human rights group, ‘We hate the fcuking gavvers’ to talk about the enquiry into Police Stop and Search powers. Welcome to the One Show Janet. Can I ask you first why are you so against Stop and search powers?”

Janet- Well…firstly, let me say that I think the police do a fantastic job under the most difficult conditions. That said, I hate them because they stop me doing what I like to do.

Alex-what’s that?

Janet- carry knives, guns, stolen property and drugs around without being arrested.

Alex-err… isn’t that against the law? You know, to carry that stuff? Around with you…

Janet-(looks horrified) don’t you oppress me! It’s part of my culture!

Matt- err… but aren’t you against violence?

Janet- Yes of course…We are against all types of violence on the street. But we want to be able to clean it up ourselves.

Alex-oh right…so how will you do that?

Janet- I don’t know…ask nicely I think…I mean, right, come on. How many times have the cops ever stopped you and searched you?

Alex- I got stopped for speeding once…but other than that, none.

Matt- I got stopped once. I was drunk at 3am with a traffic cone on my head though…

Janet- some of our group have been stopped 20-times in a week! That’s harassment!

Alex- how many of them have criminal records for drug taking, dealing, robbery etc?

Janet-what’s that got to do with it?

Alex- well…don’t you want to stop drugs, violence and thefts?

Janet-yes…but…

Alex-well, isn’t that a good way to help do that? To keep criminals in the back foot? The knowledge they can be arrested if they get stopped by the police?

Janet- fuck you! You’re as bad as them! (storms off)

Alex- OK… now, we have a report on baby milk…does it give you cancer?

===============
I stopped a chap the other day…my partner recognised him from briefing…a PNC check showed he was wanted for robbery…

Two locals stopped and vocally began to interfere with our arrest, claiming we had stopped him because he was black… I tried to explain that I couldn’t go into the details but…he was a wrong-un…

That didn’t satisfy them… eventually…my normal calm persona cracked…I turned and said, “right…ok…you win…what’s your name sir and ma’am?” They asked why… “because I’m going to let this man go now…I will submit your details along with the reasons for arrest and when this man robs someone else and injures them…you can pay them for the loss and injury compo…”

They walked away..

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82 responses to “STOPPA STOP’N SEARCH!

  1. Eastlondonmet

    Once got accosted by a MOP for stopping a group of black youths on a ore Xmas anti pensioner robbery blitz! When I explained what we were doing, why and the fact two of the group were on bail for robbery they had no reply! Did Op Blunt(anti gang and knife crime) explained the facts- we were drafted in to prevent gang on gang violence and stabbing and was told that we had stopped the wrong youths! Told the parents who were the right ones to stop and where they were and got told I won’t grass! In a polite way I said without help how can we prevent the violence they had no reply! stopped a well known burglar once I put him in the area of a burglary he was later firensicalky linked to and that stop though negative was the final puece of wvidence that secured his conviction! People( criminals and looney liberals)hate stop and search because it works on so many levels- a great proactive tool, allows police to legitimately show a prescience and reassure residents, criminals hate it as is a random factors that deters them! Shame out bosses and the looney left wing liberals don’t appreciate ! The public do so do the criminals!

  2. I’m just surprised it’s taken 3 years for this gov’t to feel the necessity to reinvent the wheel when it comes to stop/search.

    every time theres a change of political party stop/search rears it’s head.
    No doubt after several diversity talks,commmuuuunity input and bean bag sessions where ‘lessn wll be learned’ we will carry on stopping KNOWN robbers/burglars and their associates and those yoofs who always seem to be in the wrong place at the right time…..for the rest of joe public ( me included) it’s a quick Q&A ,a thank you and on my way, everything changes,nothing changes.

    • theycantgetmenow

      Don’t forget also that the silly season has started as we are about two year away from a general election. I say this all the time to my son who is in his first full year as a secondary school teacher.Don’t let the the politicians grind you down.

  3. Slightly Tarnished

    Bollock to the lot of ’em. Until I get told stop search is illegal, I’ll keep on turning scrotes over every chance I get.

  4. The best way to show how good stop and search is would be to stop using it.
    Yes detected crime would initially fall as less would be discovered but there would be an increase reported crime as the oiks would have free reign to do as they want. Stabbings and other violent crime would rocket and within weeks these so called community leaders would be calling for its return and more.
    This government have shown they truly don’t have a clue about law and order. And worse they don’t care, its becoming obvious they are paving the way for private security firms patrolling the streets and high paying directorships for themselves once they are out if power and claiming there UNTOUCHED and NON CONTRIBUTORY pensions.

  5. 1 in 10 . a better success story and hit rate than the last 10 policies introduced by those right members.

    I remember when we pretty much stopped unilaterally, stop and search after repeated bolloxings by smt re Mcphereson etc.
    within a month they were begging us to .
    I don’t care what colour you are, race religion, sexual deviancy etc….
    if your in the wrong place at the wrong time and try to sp8in me some pack of lies as to why your there-the chances are your going to get searched, especially if your trying to impress your friends by being a twunt and curtain twitchers have phoned me.

  6. Brief Encounter

    As I move around court to court I often think that I would be very happy for someone to look in my bag, my only point would be that the actual content of my papers is subject to legal professional privilege but I have to empty my pockets and be ‘wanded’ and when entering any court building and be subjected randomly to a rub down search in the cells. Frankly it just doesn’t bother me. My only gripe is that I could (though I don’t) carry a lock knife and be highly unlikely to be stopped but if I was 17 wearing a hoodie it would be more likely. I don’t agree with the bladed article legislation as in my mind no one needs to have any sort of blade with them on the streets unless they are currently engaged stripping wires as an electrician etc. Tools etc should be in locked boxes. An ex friend of mine was showing off a horrendous dagger thing which was in his fishing box. I told him to leave it at home, he ignored me and since I drove him to the coast I was shocked to find that he took it with him. He learned that lesson – I just didn’t take him anymore. One rule for all.

    • You don’t think that 17-year-old youths in hoodies hanging around the Tulse Hill Estate should be subject to more stop searches than 50-odd year old men in pinstripe suits?

      • Brief Encounter

        If being a 17 yr old living on that estate is grounds for stopping them then I have some sympathy for them. But thanks I feel nearly ten years younger.

        • LOL, you’re welcome.

          Surely though, bearing in mind local knowledge of crime patterns, int briefings, recent occurrences, behavioural patterns not to mention any other of the usual grounds that might come to light to necessitate a stop search, you DO see how the 17 year old hoodie on the estate will, and does, rightfully attract more police attention than the likes of you or I?

          I have SOME sympathy for them too, but understand that I’m going to discourage and disrupt and detect more crime stop searching them that I would Iif I search you. Not exactly rocket science.

          And as for Theresa May: more than one million stops were recorded every year but on average only around 9% led to an arrest. This conversion rate and how long each took to process – around 16 minutes – caused a “dreadful waste of police time”, she added.

          There you have it. Any deterrent effect and disruption of criminal gangs, “a dreadful waste of police time”.

          What a dreadful waste of breath, Ms May.

          • Brief Encounter

            But then you wouldn’t launch a rocket amidst the arid conditions of Arizona right now cos you’d start another fire. Nothing happens in isolation. As far as drug possession is concerned we lost that war ages ago, for the small amounts of puff found on folk really is it worth it? Knives are different I agree but I don’t think that stop and search has made a lot of difference because many youths ask themselves whether the risk of arrest and charge is more life threatening than running the gauntlet of the postcode lottery and walking through someone else’s patch coming from the wrong ends. Many youths that I have spoken to actively avoid certain areas for these reasons because they feel unsafe. So there you have it a large part of the community feels unsafe on the streets. What to do about it? Well we could buy them all pin stripe suits. I’d say carry on with the checks for weapons but use metal detectors and do it indiscriminately. Incidentally I am in favour of stop and search.

            • Re drugs possession, I might side with you there but that’s another argument. 3000 arrests for knives due to stop/search in Met area last year alone, however – not made a lot of difference? I beg to differ – how many potential victims saved as a result of those arrests? Had to quantify for our stat-dependent politicians maybe, but not difficult for the rest of us to imagine. Your youths wouldn’t be safer walking through those ‘areas’ if they wore pinstripe suits (quite the opposite probably) but WOULD be safer if more knives were taken off the streets in those areas as a result of stop searches. I really don’t understand your argument.

            • Oh…we’ve lost the war on robbery, theft and damage too… we don’t make them legal…

      • Brief Encounter

        The other problem is that the 17yr olds will think that police are picking on them because they are, well 17 yr olds. If they are regularly stopped then they will feel disenfranchised. Maybe if the police were to hang around and stop coppers kids as soon as they walked out of their front doors then the penny may drop.

        • Never trusted your instinct when you were a copper, BE? Never acted on a gut feeling (and got a good result out of it)? If not, then shame on you. Difficult to explain instinct in a MG11 of course, but it’s one of the best tools a police officer possesses. Let me put it another way for you: that crappy Vauxhall Corsa, three up, heading towards/away from a residential area at 4am. Or a car being driven out of town 11:30pm on a cold winter’s night with the driver’s window open – no crimes there per se, but would you stop them? You’d be a pretty shit copper if you didn’t, just my opinion. Same with the 17 year old hoodie on the street corner. No one’s saying we do/should go out and stop every 17 year old hoodie we come across, but if you don’t see how/why 17 year old hoodies on street corners will always attract more police attention than a besuited solicitor, then you’re either just being contrary for the sake of it, or you really did a rather sheltered coppering life.

        • Are you saying that in your 30 years of policing, you never trusted your instincts or acted acted on a gut feeling (and got a decent result because of it)? Because if you are, then I would question your effectiveness as a police officer during your time. Let me put it another way: that crappy Corsa, three up, heading towards/away from a residential area at 3am, or that car driving away from the town centre at midnight, with the driver’s window open on a cold winter’s night – no crimes being committed per se, but are you saying you wouldn’t stop them? If not, I would again question your effectiveness as a proactive police officer. No one’s saying that every 17 year old hoodie we come across on a street corner should be stopped and searched (and let’s be clear, they’re not), but if you can’t see how such a ‘type’, (unpopular as it is to actually say it) bearing in mind other relevant circs, should be more likely to attract police attention that a besuited solicitor up town, or Mrs Miggins coming out of the village community centre, then I really am wasting my breath.

          • Brief Encounter

            Yes I did and I could give you some old tales of very successful stops by me or because of local knowledge over the radio. That is not what we are talking about here is it? If you have the reasonable suspicion then fine but stopping 17yr old hoodies because they are hanging about is not good enough. Save your fingers, think for a minute before you respond. Anyway Mrs BE says wash hands for Dinner.

            • Are you twisting my words on purpose? I said, quite clearly, that no one’s saying we should stop 17 year old hoodies on street corners for the sake of it. I’m saying that there is always more to it than that. I’m not going to reiterate, but please re-read my previous comments if you’ve misunderstood them.

            • Maybe this will help:

              I once policed a rural part of North Yorkshire. Not much knife crime carried out by 17 year old hoodies on street corners up there. Therefore, I didn’t do many stop searches on such individuals at all, and got on with the rustlers and drink drivers.

              I now police a rather vibrant area of South London. nearly all of the knife crime (and we’re talking robberies, GBHs and murders here) are committed by 17 year old youths in hoodies on street corners. So I concentrate my efforts on them.

              Am I a bad man, “wasting my time” as Theresa puts it?

  7. 3000 arrested for Off Weap by Met alone last year as a result of stop searches, more than justifies the other 9/10 getting a quick search but with a negative result as far as I’m concerned.

    Another sly ruse by HMG to lower the crime figures to show that their insane cuts are ‘working’?

    “Tough on crime – tough on the statistics that highlight actual crime”

    I’m with Blue Bob on this one – it goes completely aganst the grain but the only answer is to all but cease stop searching and let the crime figures speak for themselves. Of course, there will then be the howls of “what are the police doing about it”…

  8. Brief Encounter

    If I wasn’t up to my eye balls with prep and trying to sort my tax, I would delve back into Hansard for the period running up to Peel’s introduction of Modern Policing and the MP Act 1839. I reckon it will have been the Tories who were against it.

  9. Over the years I have used my stop and search powers less and less and this is due to the constant moaning about us abusing our powers. The people I targeted were from all types of backgrounds, all ethnicities. If they looked like they were up to no good then they got turned over.
    Now I just don’t give a $h1t anymore. I’m not going to search anyone and risk be labelled with some ism or ist tag and be investigated. I’m happy for us all to stop using our search powers and watch the chaos unfold.

    • Brief Encounter

      I had the same philosophy but I am not convinced that chaos will ensue.

      • Maybe not chaos but more people would walk around with drugs, more would walk around carrying weapons. Assaults with weapons, robberies etc would increase and eventually the liberal dogooders would end up on the receiving end of something unpleasant.

      • Chaos might not ensue, but I’m certain that crime will rise and I’m sure that you would be the first to ask, “What are the police doing about it?” if (god forbid) a loved one of yours falls victim to knife crime.

  10. http://news.sky.com/story/1110623/stop-and-search-police-powers-to-be-reviewed

    Somewhat comforting to see that comments are pretty much all pro-police stop/search and ridicule May’s latest dangerous appeasement.

  11. Brief Encounter

    All we need now is pink lid.

    • It’s just discussion, BE and we all have valid points. Don’t start thinking about flouncing off in fury!!

      • Brief Encounter

        PE carry on doing your best in South London. But you know that what I am saying is as correct as most of that which you say yourself. But sections of the community do feel unsafe especially some young people and forgive me but these were your words:

        ‘You don’t think that 17-year-old youths in hoodies hanging around the Tulse Hill Estate should be subject to more stop searches than 50-odd year old men in pinstripe suits?’

        It shouldn’t be down to what they are wearing but what they are doing.

        Still don’t want to twist what you say, that’s not really my style as an advocate. Glances at Teddy…..no you are safe Rupert.

        • You have a pint BE…but……… the culture of gang members (wearing the uniform of the sportswear hoodie etc…) doesn’t really appeal to those people that work for a living (wearing suits…)……

          • Brief Encounter

            Thanks you have a pint as well mate, in fact I’d be happy to buy you one and PE.

            • Brief Encounter

              Guess we could meet in that micro brewery at the south side of Brixton Leisure Centre unless of course you are on LS’s ground, there used to be a nice Young’s pub down the hill (well every where is) from LG.

            • Re North Yorkshire and South London/Tulse Hill, let’s just say that ‘the names have been changed to protect the innocent’. Or maybe they haven’t. Who knows?

        • You either missed, or are ignoring, my further points:

          “…Surely though, bearing in mind local knowledge of crime patterns, int briefings, recent occurrences, behavioural patterns not to mention any other of the usual grounds that might come to light to necessitate a stop search, you DO see how the 17 year old hoodie …”

          “…No one’s saying that every 17 year old hoodie we come across on a street corner should be stopped and searched (and let’s be clear, they’re not), but if you can’t see how such a ‘type’, (unpopular as it is to actually say it) bearing in mind other relevant circs, should be more likely to attract police attention that a besuited…”

          after which you post:

          “… stopping 17yr old hoodies because they are hanging about [what you are saying I am saying] is not good enough…”

          So like I said, don’t twist my words please.

          • Brief Encounter

            Oh dear!

            ‘…..17-year-old youths in hoodies hanging around the Tulse Hill Estate…….’ No twisting, your words not mine.

            Actually I bet you would be suspicious if a group of suited 50 yr olds were to assemble in an estate on your patch for no apparent reason.

            • Still ignoring how I have gone on to explain the reasons as to why 17 year old youths in hoodies on an estate are more likely to be stop searched by a besuited city type. Are you really asserting that the statistics between the two should tally up equally? Because if you are then you are a fool. Oh dear, indeed! I might be surprised to see a group of 50 year olds assemble on an estate, not necessarily suspicious, but knowing what I do know about knife crime in the area, I probably wouldn’t worry about their potential for carrying out knife-point robberies. You, apparently, disagree. It’s difficult to reason with such a skewered standpoint.

            • If I saw a group of 50 year old men on an estate in suits I’ve got to be honest I’d be thinking ” squad doing a search warrant, I’m off before they try to pass off some sh##”

          • Brief Enflouncer

            No I just got really bored. Don’t need to twist words I’ve won without any of that stuff.

  12. Brief Encounter

    No, no point, done that before, it was fun the first time with people begging me to come back! I worked with the late great Paul McKeever but I cant help thinking that we are reaping the result of that clever trick at last years conference. Sadly I think its all gone too far now.

    • I do recall two or three comments, spread over a number of weeks (months?) saying that your input was somewhat missed (but still poking fun at the way you flounced out). But, ‘begging’? That, I can’t remember at all!!

      • Brief Encounter

        My referring to it being fun the first time does rather imply that I did it on more than one occasion. Or am I twisting my own words now?

        I love a good flounce guess its why I like dressing up at work but then you do the same don’t you?

        • I’m referring to your Masterclass in flouncing, when Maroon Lid infuriated you so by criticising the legal profession. And flounce you did! Only mentioned it, as you brought Maroon Lid into the equation yourself, referencing the occasion in question, I suspect? I don’t flounce, or ‘dress up’ at work. Whatever are you going on about?

  13. I think we are all missing the point here.If we stop and search a crim and find drugs/knives/stolen goods etc through skillful police work we have created a crime that didn’t exist before.If we didn’t stop that person then no crime-get it? May doesn’t care if that person who isn’t stopped then stabs chav number 2-she can then blame the police for the lawless streets.
    There is always a hidden agenda with this hateful Home Secretary.
    I have almost given up searching unless I get absolutely rock-solid grounds.

    • As I said earlier, mate “… Another sly ruse by HMG to lower the crime figures to show that their insane cuts are ‘working’?”

      I think that it certainly forms part of their intentions.

    • Brief Encounter

      I do sympathise. I don’t think that I could do the job now and not least since the trousers would not fit.

  14. Also positive comments on BBC News article, e.g.

    “About a million stops take place each year – but only 9% lead to an arrest, Theresa May told MPs.” When a hundred police officers walk in a line to search for evidence in a field only one police officer will find that crucial piece of evidence. Does this mean that only one police officer was needed to find that evidence and the other ninety nine were superfluous and unnecessary?”

    Quite.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23140505

  15. Great Post & responses. Getting like old times. Keep it up guys, I’m feeling nostalgic now. 🙂

    • They say that if you say, “Feral” three times while looking into a mirror, the very same haridan itself will appear and infest the blog in a way about which BE and me can only dream…

    • All we need now is the F-Bomb haridan formerly known as… well, you know who i mean, and we’ll have the full house. Think it’s already been banned, fortunately.

      • Aaargh! Don’t say the F word !

        • Brief Encounter

          Oi doggy I see that one of your colleagues bit a child in its garden recently. Police dogs need to be more accountable!

      • Brief Encounter

        I was thinking that as being stopped in public might be embarrassing that police should have a collapsible tent so that searches could be done in relative privacy. Actually I think I may have had feral take over my mind as that idea is similar to arm deflectors.

  16. 10 miserable years to go

    All I will say is that if you look at the robbery or knife crime briefing or intel for any borough in the met there is common denominator. They might not like it, they might deny it, but its there for all to see. It’s just a shame we can’t show the briefings to the public and the do gooders.

  17. scarletpimple

    Been having problems with passwords, wordpress doesn’t seem to favour me at present.
    SP

  18. Anfield Road, just by the football ground one Saturday. Overtime (YEEHAAA!)

    “Youse onl’ stoppin’ me cus I is black!”

    “NO laddie I am only stopping you because of the 12″ Machette you are wearing on your belt!”

    Did not appear to “compute”.

    Even got called to the bosses carpet for that one. His brief was not impressed with my answer, and made a complaint.

    Got “let off” bye the way.

    HOW can you be “let off” from something that was not an offence in the FIRST place????

    I STILL have that “Huh WHAT!!??” moment when I think back.

  19. Brief Encounter

    Stop passing yourself off as feral! Sorry couldn’t resist that.

  20. Brief Encounter

    Incidentally where is bin lid?

  21. Off topic, but looks like Acpoo are beginning to eat their own

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23171119

    The job was always Fjucked , but these twunts made it harder all for some shiny sh#t on their shoulders and letters after their name.

  22. Brief Enflouncer

    They made a series called watching the detectives but not watching the senior officers. Presumably because it would have been like watching paint drying. But all of a sudden they seem to be getting quite dramatic.

  23. Brief Encounter

    Oh and I reckon you should all have pop up tube tents so that folk getting stopped are not embarrassed by onlookers.

  24. Strange things you dream about, but I dreamt that stop and search (“Sus laws”) had been given up after the Toxteth riots, and replaced with PACE.

    When did “stop and search” come back into vogue?

  25. Brief Encounter

    The so called sus law was the Vagrancy Act 1824. This created a number of offences such as begging, being on enclosed premises and the so called suspected person loitering with intent. London general powers to stop and search individuals was provided by s66 MPA 1839. PACE provided power to search people and premises.

    • CHEERS! So much has changed, I would have to go back to Bruche (No1 PTC) again…..

      Britain is just totaly unrecognisable these days. (My speling as well, after 15 years only writing German…. 🙂 )

      • Brief Encounter

        Reminds me of a chap I know, retired some years ago but seemingly can’t let go. There is nothing worse in my mind in trying to tell contemporary cops how it is when your only knowledge is how it was or how you thought it was when you were serving. For me everything seems rosy back in the 1970s and frozen to death but I am only remembering the good bits.

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